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I'm a brand new linux user (started last month). I was originally using SuSE 9.1, but I switched to Gentoo because I'm a glutten for punishment and I heard its stage 1 install could be challenging for the unexperienced.

It was.

I loved it.

Still do, too. I have no plans on switching to another distro. Or ever back to Suse -- feels bloated, don't you think? Anyways, I'd love to use KDE with my Gentoo, but for some reason it just won't work.

Anyone have any idea? I posted this thread in a couple of forums but have recieved NO help whatsoever. http://www.kde-forum.org/viewtopic.php?t=3514

well, uhm, I see all users on gentoo haven't tried debian ;-)

quite interesting... just because afaik, the only reall difference that counts beteween debian and gentoo is the fact that debian is binary based, and gentoo source based.

but both dont have to deal with rpm, which is why they rock ;-)

I thought about gentoo, but I dont want to wait soo long for installation of packages. nice I can tune them, and speed up the system, but I'm sure I'd be upgrading every day, hence the system whould mostly be slow as hell (not a fast pc over here) so it whoulnt really work...

So I'd say gentoo is nice, but dont forget debian - it has the best *binary* package management system (well, except maybe for 'newbie's like autopackage and zero-install, but they dont have a distro backing them up), is quite fast, and has for sure the biggest package pool (I have 16.000 packages in synaptic, ready to install in a few clicks). also the choice you have: stable/testing/unstable/experimental - something for everyone ;-)

and alot ppl use debian (in one or another form, I think debian is one of the, if not the most used linux distribution!) which helps too (lot help available, for example).

okay, so i installed gentoo on VMWare, it's a good distro. but i still perfer SuSE.

distros like gentoo and debian arent ready for the desktop home user, plus they really arent for the server room either. if you have time to setup gentoo (which i have done by the way) in a server setting, more power to you, but it probably shouldnt be used for in-a-hurry type installs

i use debian and will not change. i have used (extensively) slackware, suse, red hat/fedora, and gentoo (not for very long though) and i always go back to debian and there i have stayed

for the desktop mainstream users, they are going to be happier with something like suse or (dare i say) mandrake and maybe a few others, red hat in the server (and suse) and slack, debian, gentoo (and others like that) for the enthusiast and those who really want to learn linux

I thought I'd put in my two cents.

I've administered several different Un*ces:
* NetBSD
* Mandrake
* OpenBSD
* Debian
* Gentoo
* Redhat (Fedora and previous)

(I'm sure others here have similar lists. Whatever)

Regarding gentoo I would give the following pros and cons:
Pros
* Good documentation. Can bring a newbie up to hard-core command-line speed faster than many others. Those not familiar with some general computing concepts might have problems though (e.g. how a hard disk is partitioned.) I know this from experience from walking a complete linux newbie through a stage 3 install. Most concepts were documented.

* Easy access to the source. It took a while for me to find and be comfortable with the ebuild command, but unpacking the source to any package is really one easy command away. And the source is probably already downloaded.

* Pristene source following the BSD line. That was something I always missed after coming to Linux from the BSD world.


Cons
* No easy equivalent to 'rpm -ql pkgname' as far AFAICT. How do you know what files an ebuild has installed? (I would hope for something like etcat -f -v version pkgname)

* Insufficient dependency reporting. Yes, I know about emerge -pe pkgname. At least it has this much (it's hard to do even that with http://pkgsrc.org jpkgsrc tree). But what about reverse dependencies?

* All the warnings about not being able to revert from a masked ebuild scare me. I would like to be able to specify "Stay at this version until it becomes unmasked and then stay at unmasked level"

Regarding the comments about needing a high-speed connection, you have to have a high-speed connection in order to use any automatic updater in Linux, wither it's apt repositories or urpmi ones or rsyncing with gentoo. Gentoo does not take that much longer than other distrobutions when online. It's the offline/compiling time that takes longer.

Overall, I love it as a distrobution. It definitely has improvements to make, though.

And one more for the gentoo users...:-)

Quoted

Original von epte

How do you know what files an ebuild has installed?

Have you tryed "qpkg". I find it really slow but with that tool you can find will files belong to a certain package or the reverse. I haven't used it for much more but it has already proven usefull.

Don't have much more to say about gentoo except that I regularly use a PII 300Mhz and that gentoo still rocks. It's a tradeoff; long times of compilation to have a high performance and stable system.

With KDE improvements in performance since 3.0 and now with gentoo I guess I will have to donwgrade my hardware soon ;-)

Quoted

Original von m4ktub


Have you tryed "qpkg"?

No, I haven't. I'll have to give it a whirl this weekend. Thanks. :-)

Quoted

Original von m4ktub

With KDE improvements in performance since 3.0 and now with gentoo I guess I will have to donwgrade my hardware soon ;-)

Just and additional comment.

Some discussions have appeared about the topic "Is linux becoming bloated". The base system isn't and probably never will be but some distributions work hard to have a lot of features and can go in that direction.

Gentoo allows you to choose. You start from a very light linux and add complexity as you wan't. It's your choice. If you wan't it bloated then you can.

It's more or less the opposite of those games that are considered the best ones just because they don't even run without the state of the art in video cards.

Quoted

Original von m4ktub

Quoted

Original von m4ktub

With KDE improvements in performance since 3.0 and now with gentoo I guess I will have to donwgrade my hardware soon ;-)

Just and additional comment.

Some discussions have appeared about the topic "Is linux becoming bloated". The base system isn't and probably never will be but some distributions work hard to have a lot of features and can go in that direction.

Gentoo allows you to choose. You start from a very light linux and add complexity as you wan't. It's your choice. If you wan't it bloated then you can.

It's more or less the opposite of those games that are considered the best ones just because they don't even run without the state of the art in video cards.

but this is absolutely not unique to gentoo. debian can do this, easilly, and in fact most linux distro's can be stripped quite easilly. do I hear anyone say slackware? why did no-one mention it? it has since long been the fastest out there... and yoper, the new kid in speed-town?

I don't think Gentoo will ever be as popular as DeadRat, Fedora, Mandrake because the process of installing is not something people new to linux can grasp, even at stage 3. Another strike against gentoo is EVERYTHING (with the expection of a few packages) is compiled from source, so time consumption is an issue. In a busines, time == money...

Unless Gentoo is able to offer all packages as binary as an option, I think Gentoo will be the "cult" distro for linux geeks and those balsy enough to try it.

Unfortunately, portage is not the selling point of Gentoo, the uber optimization is. Also, other distros also have package managers. However, RPM is the worst.

Gentoolkit is your best friend.

I don't know that I'd class Gentoo as the Future of linux distros. Especially since it's basic premise is to remain true to the linux core administration and management (with the exception of emerge which is a streamlined package management tool).

The strength in Gentoo is that packages are compiled to your system's specific structure which is nice. However installation could be improved upon. Sure cultists like to brag they installed with Stage 1, however there is absolutely no way I'm going to expend that much time to install a system in a work environment where time can be precious.

As for other distros being Bloated. That has absolutely nothing to do with the distribution as that responsibility lies solely in the hands of the user. I personally use SuSE 9.1 pro which lately seems to take criticism for being bloatware, however I also opted to do a manual install and chose only those packages I wanted installed and the kernel was compiled to my particular system as well.

Quoted

Original von Scribbler

I don't know that I'd class Gentoo as the Future of linux distros. Especially since it's basic premise is to remain true to the linux core administration and management (with the exception of emerge which is a streamlined package management tool).

The strength in Gentoo is that packages are compiled to your system's specific structure which is nice. However installation could be improved upon. Sure cultists like to brag they installed with Stage 1, however there is absolutely no way I'm going to expend that much time to install a system in a work environment where time can be precious.

As for other distros being Bloated. That has absolutely nothing to do with the distribution as that responsibility lies solely in the hands of the user. I personally use SuSE 9.1 pro which lately seems to take criticism for being bloatware, however I also opted to do a manual install and chose only those packages I wanted installed and the kernel was compiled to my particular system as well.

and I'm sure this way you'r system whoulnt perform that much worse than a gentoo system... there is way much more than just optimal compiled binaries. pre-linking, stripping binaries, and just a good config is much more important. and also some kernel patches (eg con kolivas' patchset) can increase speed even more.