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Original von sevengraff
Knoppix is my fav! The hard drive install is really easy.
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Original von tuxnet
I never knew that gentoo was so popular, to tell you the truth I had never heard of gentoo until a few weeks ago when I was trying to help someone and I asked what distro he was running and he replied back saying gentoo. Well maybe its about time I'll try it out too.
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Original von anda_skoa
Gentoo is Debian for people with too much time, fast processors and a need for additonal speed ups who do not know about apt-source :wink:
Cheers,
_
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Original von Mystilleef
I don't understand what you mean by too much time to waste, so excuse my generalization. On average package compile very quickly. Why? Well, becuase a significant proportion of the packages available in Linux are small in size. On average, most packages are between 2MB to 5MB in size. I acknowledge there are exceptions, for example, KDE, Gnome and Mozilla, to mention a few, but those are very minute.
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In addition, because you are compiling a package doesn't mean you can't use your computer.
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Gentoo in a way is ahead of its time. 2 years from now, when modern CPUs and computer systems, will be capable of compiling all the KDE packages from source in less than 2 minutes.
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1). You don't know the optimizations the entity used.
2). You don't know if the entity introduced bugs or holes into the supposed binary. [Very unlikely]
3). Codes compiled on your system and on your CPU architecture, all things being equal, should be more stable than one compiled on someone else's machine.
4). You are at liberty to choose which compiler version to use. I know some distros that still use GCC-2.9.*
5). It is psychologically satisfying, albiet sometimes a false ray of satisfaction, to make your CPU do some work, rather while away it's time 90% of it's time.
6). Compiling is fun and a sick hobby for Gents.
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Althought, apt-source is great, it has its shortcoming as compared to portage, emerge, which was designed from the scratch to be a meta-source package manager. They are as follows:
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SLOTS:The ability to install several version of the same package on the system in question without breaking the system, it's packages and it's packages dependencies.
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USE FLAGS: The ability enable functionality of other packages in a package. e.g. USB functionality in CUPS, your Printer and your Scanner, or ALSA functionality in arts.
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CFLAGS: Customizing optimizations for your for individual packages.
LDFLAGS: Further customizations for your packages.
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DEPENDENCY CONTROL: The ability to control which depency to install and which not to.
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MAKE DUPLICATION: The ability the deceive the compiler into think 2, 3, 4 or X amount of CPU's are present thereby speeding up the compilation time. In other words, Gentoo enables you to specify parallel makes.
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Thank you for allowing me rant, but the experience you'll get using gentoo and socializing with the gentoo community, the gentoo forums and IRC, is a unique Linux one. Very different from any distro I've tried, Debian inclusive.
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Gentoo is not Debian, portage bear little to no similarities to apt-source and how dare you say I waste my time.
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Original von anda_skoa
We obviously have different machines.
On my machine it takes longer to comile and install a source package than to install a precompiled one.
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Original von anda_skoa
Yes, I know that. My computer does this the whole day, I am a software enginieer.
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Original von anda_skoa
Very unlikely.
It takes many hours to compile all KDE on a current single processor machine.
Am don't think computers in 2 years will be hundret times faster then the current ones or KDE will be hundret times smaller.
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Original von anda_skoa
So, how does this differ from compiling a package on any other distro?
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Original von anda_skoa
I didn't say it it is equal in all aspects, but it allows to automatically install packages from source, something users of source based distros think is unique to theirs.
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Original von anda_skoa
Not sure I understand this.
One can set in some kind of system configuration how packages will be compiled?
This will then be automatically translated to configure switches when compiling the package?
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Original von anda_skoa
You can set those on ayn system and the autoconf framework of the package will use it.
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Original von anda_skoa
Does this something more than make -j?
Sounds like make -j to me.
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Original von anda_skoa
Would be a shame if it wheren't different.
The target user group is different, isn't it?
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Original von anda_skoa
I never said any Gentoo user wastes his/her time.
Wasting time means that you could do something better instead.
I would be wasting my time if I would do this, you don't waste your time if this is what you want to do, which is obvioulsy the case.
Cheers,
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Original von Mystilleef
I don't dispute the fact that compiling and installing a package, KDE especially, is more time consuming than installing a package's precompiled binaries. My argument is that that notion it fast becoming a moot point as hardware become advanced, powerful and sophisticated.
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As a software engineer I think you'd find gentoo fascinating, especially since you compile packages the whole day. Gentoo is particulary designed for such tasks.
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I must be smoking floppies. I apologize for my careless error. I meant to say 20 mins not 2 mins.
Hypothetical specs:-
5GHz Processor
1.2GHz FSB
1GB RAM
100GB SATA HARD DISK
I'm confident you get the picture.
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Original von Mystilleef
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Original von anda_skoa
Not sure I understand this.
One can set in some kind of system configuration how packages will be compiled?
This will then be automatically translated to configure switches when compiling the package?
Yes, you get the concept. More information on that here.
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Original von Mystilleef
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Original von anda_skoa
You can set those on ayn system and the autoconf framework of the package will use it.
Absolutely. The difference, however, is that in gentoo you don't have go playing around with makefiles or the autoconf framework. In gentoo, optimizations are set system wide and will affect all source packages compiled henceforth. Future versions of portage will automatically generate the best optimizations for your system and packages.
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Original von Mystilleef
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Original von anda_skoa
Does this something more than make -j?
Sounds like make -j to me.
Yes, it is indeed. I find it difficult explaining it to non-technically savy individuals, but undoubtedly you are well versed with computers.
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Original von anda_skoa
I never said any Gentoo user wastes his/her time.
Wasting time means that you could do something better instead.
I would be wasting my time if I would do this, you don't waste your time if this is what you want to do, which is obvioulsy the case.
Cheers,
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In that case everything is a waste of time.
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Since by your definition 'waste of time' is relative. In other words, it differs from individual to individual.
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Original von anda_skoa
I get the picture, but I still think 20mins for the whole KDE is to short.
It would mean that one could compile KDE in about an hour using todays machines, which is not possible.
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Original von anda_skoa
You don't have to play around with makefiles or the framework on other system either.
The framework automatically takes these settings into account, that's why it is so widly used.
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Original von anda_skoa
Ok, so we agree that this point is not different from other distributions build systems?
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Original von Mystilleef
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Original von anda_skoa
You don't have to play around with makefiles or the framework on other system either.
The framework automatically takes these settings into account, that's why it is so widly used.
I'm not quite sure I understand you here. To the best of my knowledge this feature is unique only to Gentoo. Even Debian doesn't implement it, for obvious reasons. I may be utterly mistaken. But I'd appreciate it if you can shed more light on which other distros use system wide customized CFLAGS, LDFLAGS and J options. Binary distros, are automatically null and void, they don't need such options.
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Original von anda_skoa
CFLAGS, LDFLAGS or MAkEFLAGS are just normal evironment variables.
If you want all software compiled on your system to use a standardizes setting, you just set them in a global file like /etc/profile
If you want them local for one user, you set them in ~/.bashrc or similar.
I have only set CFLAGS for the account I do most development in to make sure I always compile with -Wall
The point is, if you want to do it systemwide, there is nothing stopping you from doing so.
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Hmm, sounds like a bug in the makefile generation. The generator should always honor user speficied flags.
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Original von Mystilleef
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Original von anda_skoa
CFLAGS, LDFLAGS or MAkEFLAGS are just normal evironment variables.
If you want all software compiled on your system to use a standardizes setting, you just set them in a global file like /etc/profile
If you want them local for one user, you set them in ~/.bashrc or similar.
I have only set CFLAGS for the account I do most development in to make sure I always compile with -Wall
The point is, if you want to do it systemwide, there is nothing stopping you from doing so.
A note of correction. CFLAGS, LDFLAGS and MAKEFLAGS are not environment variable. The are GCC optimization options. They are optimizations passed to the compiler during package compilations. Who ever told you they are environment variables is blatantly in error. For more information
[code:1]
man gcc
[/code:1]
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Some influential environment variables:
CC C compiler command
CFLAGS C compiler flags
LDFLAGS linker flags, e.g. -L<lib dir> if you have libraries in a
nonstandard directory <lib dir>
CPPFLAGS C/C++ preprocessor flags, e.g. -I<include dir> if you have
headers in a nonstandard directory <include dir>
CPP C preprocessor
CXX C++ compiler command
CXXFLAGS C++ compiler flags
CXXCPP C++ preprocessor
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Original von Mystilleef
From my narrow understanding, the CLFAGs and MAKEFLAGS optimizations are supposed to be passed to GCC and not the environment.
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Original von Mystilleef
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Original von anda_skoa
CFLAGS, LDFLAGS or MAkEFLAGS are just normal evironment variables.
If you want all software compiled on your system to use a standardizes setting, you just set them in a global file like /etc/profile
If you want them local for one user, you set them in ~/.bashrc or similar.
I have only set CFLAGS for the account I do most development in to make sure I always compile with -Wall
The point is, if you want to do it systemwide, there is nothing stopping you from doing so.
A note of correction. CFLAGS, LDFLAGS and MAKEFLAGS are not environment variable. The are GCC optimization options. They are optimizations passed to the compiler during package compilations. Who ever told you they are environment variables is blatantly in error. For more information
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