KDE-Forum.org

Okay, now I've been playing with KDE 4.1.1, and it's pretty clear.

Konqueror no longer has a filter bar. Dolphin has a filterbar. You can't mount devices from Konqueror any more, but you can mount them from Dolphin. Borttom line, I can't use Konqueror any more without Dolphin. To me, this means that KDE is pretty intent on murdering Konqueror as a file manager. They say they aren't, but their words and their actions tell two different stories. Until full functionality is restored to Konqueor, I have to believe my own eyes.

Maybe it's not murder but manslaughter, whatever the intent of the developers, Konqueror the file manager doesn't fit in the KDE4 vision.

And maybeit shouldn't have to. When people want to take cheap shots at KDE4, they often like to claim that KDE4 was inspired by Windows Vista. The closest I've ever gotten to Windows Vista was shoppjing for CD-RWs at Circuit City, but I doubt that very much. Vista is supposed to suck, and KDE4 does not suck.

But all you have to do is listen to Aaron Seigo's keynote address at the KDE4.0 release event to know that the intent is very much to take on the proprietary desktops on their own turf, and i think it is going to succeed brilliantly. Now, that kind of success requires polish. And polish, in turn, requires an approach that anticipates the user.

And anticipating the user requires that the user not be terribly creative. For years, I've been working on my own desktop, with my own menus that manages KDE applications with fluxbox. For me it's an awesome desktop, it just cuts through everything, and it doesn't work without Konqueror at full power. I was just about to release my desktop plan as a live CD when KDE4 started to capture my attention. Again and again, KDE4 thwarts me when I try to act out of the box. Konqueror has a special relationship with window managers. It can bring everything that is missing from a desktop environment to the table. Nautilus can't do what Konqueror does. Neither can thunar, or XFE, or Dolphin. People should be able to discover the power that I have discovered in Konqueror.

The thing is, taking on the proprietary desktops on their own turf is something that is very much needed. KDE4 is an important effort that I admire more and more with each release, even as each release breaks my heart a little more. I can't be the only person out there who cannot let Konqueror go quietly.

The talk of a KDE fork has been starting up again, and I have been one of the primary instigators. But instead of a fork that divides the community, is there something else that can be done that would be less divisive...and, frankly, easier?

Here is where I attempt to coin one of those whimsical terms like copyleft that we all seem to love. How about a "spoon"?

A spoon would be a partial distribution, based perhaps on just kdebase and kdelibs, instead of the whole DE, that wouldn't require all the superflous development. A spoon fits together with the main desktop environment, like spoons in your silverware drawer. You could run it alongside a KDE 4 installation to open KDE4 applications from a more traditional KDE interface, or you could use it to run a full strength version of Konqueror (I like the name "Liberator") in a Window manager like fluxbox or fvwm OR it could be used to run Liberator in KDE4. It would be built to complement KDE, so it would be a part of the KDE community. I like to think that it would be an independent project, conducted in the spirit of community and utmost cooperation.

As Aaron pointed out, KDE3 will be supported for years. There is time enough to see if this or something similar is really going to be necessary. I would love nothing more than to be massively wrong about where Konqueror is headed, and I have neither the knowledge nor the temprament to undertake something like this myself. I'm just brainstorming, which is what this forum is about.

If it were up to me, I would call the spoon "Disco". It would spoof the nostalgia angle. (If I'm supposed to "be free" and yet you're telling me "Don't look back", does that mean I'm not free to look back?)

In the classic fashion, there would be a recursive acronym:

Disco is so conspicuously old!

Okay, that was mostly BS. The truth is far simpler. The KDE team is doing a great job, and there's a strong consense that they're producing a great desktop. But there's no sign that anyone at KDE cares about Konqueror, an application that I am devoted to. New Konqueror releases aren't even announced at konqueror.org any more. No one is interested enough to do it.

There's no real obligation that I know of for anyone at KDE to care about Konqueror, but I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that someone does,

It's ironic, but not all that surprising, that one of the first things I did was to install opensuse 11,0, so I could run KDE 4.1.1 without losing access to Konqueror 3.5. Making the decision means that all of my feelings about KDE4 have been resolved. in my mind, KAL (konqueror/liberator) isn't their responsibility anymore, so I don't have to hate them. And that's good, because I always knoew hating them was wrong. Using KDE 4.1.1 doesn't depress and anger me any more. I'm planning on using Twitter to build community support, and I want that twitter plasmoid!

Now to figure out those GD input actions!

Step 1 is to compile KDE base and KDE Libs again and again, different releases, and to read all the notes. My spooning project is something of a long shot, but maybe I can build interest. If someone (maybe me, maybe not) succeeds at liberating KAL, based on my own reaction, I believe that the KDE community may see a lot of bad will dissipated, and the result could be less division, not more. I very much hope so.

If anyone wants to help, the best way is simply to follow my blog at
http://twitter.com/blackbelt_jones

Quoted from "markc"

I agree with most of your suggestions about a fork of KDE3, and just for the sake of revitalizing the 3.5 era konqueror would in itself be good enough justification. The point you make about a fork diminishing the bad feeling from some folks about the path of KDE4 could be spot on. Most people seem to be happy with the direction of KDE4 but there is OBVIOUSLY a subset of KDE users who are not happy with KDE4, regardless how politically incorrect it may be to suggest such a thing, and are sticking to KDE3... but they have a long term problem, there are no official future milestones planned for KDE3. The idea that there may never be a 3.5.11 could lead to despair FOR SOME PEOPLE so if there is a real no-bullshit fork of KDE3, and that draws away and mitigates the deepest critics of KDE4, then KDE4 developers and end-users may have less vitriole to deal with and both camps could thereafter happily co-exist. Ithink you have a valid point with that suggestion.

How about starting a thread somewhere, other than in "KDE 4 Brainstorm", something like "Seeking Interest In Forking KDE3" and make a real and direct attempt at focussing any interest.

I have to tell you frankly, part of me hopes there never will be a KDE3.5.11, because after working with opensuse 11.0 today, I'm beginning to realize that the konquerorcide has reached into KDE 3.5. Somewhere around 3.5.8 to 3.5.9, the whole thing started to get complicated. I'd have to click and click and click to get the filter bar set up. Somehow I would just stumble onto. Or not.

Today, I finally figured out how to get the filterbar in Konqueror 4. It took me months and months of posting in forums and on blogs, and about two dozen google searches, which mostly turned up... you guessed it... all of my posts on forums and blogs. I tried to find the anser in the Konqueror handbook, but that was befoire I realized that it was the "brand new" 2002 edition. Well I finally figured out how to get the filter bar...

And the punchline is... a shitty "file type" filter! What thought process goes into the decision to switch form a filter that allws me to find any keyword to a filter that only works on file types? I can't tell you when I've been so frustrated and angry. If I'd been a little bit clamer, I might have been able to have a good cry. Well, things like this are turning up in Konqueror 3.5.9 now, so i'm sure 3.5.10 is lousy with them.

You know how I spelled relief? E-T-C-H! The stable version of Debian is on my other partition, featuring KDE 3.5.5. Sweet Jesus, it's so idyllic! Any attempt to fork Konqueror or KDE that's worth doing wiill have to reach back further than just the last 3.5 release.