KDE-Forum.org

To h*** with lots of fancy stuff.

Kmail is crying out for improvement in basic areas.

I will point to one area namely creating a basic set of cataloguing and indexing tools -- maybe you could add some other ideas.

It is easy to sort incoming mails into folders .. but hellishly difficult to sort copies of replies. What is needed is careful attention to expanding the customisable features for folder properties.e.g.
[list]
Save replies from this folder to [folder]
Use [signaturefilename] when replying from this folder
Add custom header [[name][data]] to mails when replying from this folder
Create mails index for this folder in [format]:[Filename]
Add [headername:data] to mails index

[/list]

my two pennorth

Make KMail for Windows as well as amarok for windows

many people need a alternativ for outlook at windows

both will be available when kde4 is available for windows.
kmail immediatly, amarok will follow soon..

more and more Groupware Server integrate Messenger Service

integrate a Messenger Client into KMail

a good business messenger is Spark from Igniterealtime

The Spark Code is under the GPL
Spark integrate VOIP !!!

http://www.igniterealtime.org/

better is ONE BUISINESS PLATFORM for all communication MAIL, CALENDER ..., MESSENGER and VOIP

Quoted

Originally posted by Rinse
both will be available when kde4 is available for windows.
kmail immediatly, amarok will follow soon..

okey Thx

I really love using Kmail and Kontact. What I would like is more linking between the Address book and Calendar and Mail program in some specific areas.

I so often am organising meetings with people or sending peoples detail to others etc. Now, sadly they are not all as "with it" as me and use kmail or have any clue what vcard and vcal are...

What I would love are some natural language processing functions built in so that for example an email is scanned and when it finds "lets meet tuesday for lunch" it could pop in a smart tag or something that gives you a response such as "This seems to be an appointment - would you like to add it to your Agenda?" and then follow with a few parsed guesses. Google does something similar with its calendar.

It would be great to quickly drop a contact onto an email and have the option of attaching a vcard or inserting contact information as text (brief or verbose). Like wise highlighting or having a smarttag to indicate you had a possible contact and and offer to add it to the address book would be smart.

If there was a hook once an email was displayed to parse the text it could hang off that or perhaps a hook after selecting text? Or a right click option? Perhaps with a Kross script or something!

Anyway, these are my dreams. I think they would be fun to implement but I wouldn't have a clue about how to go about it!

Cheers,

Kevin

yes it need some fun stuff like animed emoticons, it's look so pretty but in that part its lacking no improvement since i try my first Linux, it was a good date.
I used first gnome it was nice but i looked this and felt in love but that was the only fail a found and it start seems like gnome and don't know why that change it seem the new dev. people are lack in creativity and the clear colors why, it's so clear and fatigue the eyes.
i remember was a little more dark before. how I said something like incredimail I use that and was pretty funny when I had windows xp installed I erase from my life sorry for this but ,

No kde or kde app for windows go to hell it's waste time who care about windows user if they don't like Linux or bsd and the like pay a lot of money or crack programs it's their problem kde belongs to Unix systems and it's all.

I am not a professional in computers just I used like a simple user I don't understand when the people ask for things for windows.
I tried Linux and when at the end I found a good distro like PClinuxOS, I took the decision Why insist in app Unix running in win$ if the people don't want to give it up to Microsoft world, why make the life easy to Microsoft making and waste time to their users it's better work in dev kde for Unix systems and make it better for fight against, M$ for the user.
A lot of users are changing thanks to beryl who brings some refreshing to Linux in creativity and show how powerful it's this system.
the only problem it's the lack for real and nice app and finished those tutorials with command lines when from KDE yo can make so many of that command lines I remenbeer when I start I tried follow the tutorial and after many headaches I watch carefully and I discovered it was easier used that tools from any of two managers than the commands line
Ok sorry for my english it's not my strong but I tried give the main ideas.

Quoted

Originally posted by grimweb
I've simply never come across this situation... I just noticed that it is not possible to send HTML mails by default... first time I ever checked it...

Going that kids also use Kmail maybe the feature would be handy...

Still HTML-mail is wrong, but I guess sometimes you have to go with the flow...

btw: why are they so worried about a message they wrote themselves? shouldn't they be more worried about your awnser to it?

I have to reply to html formatted mails everyday because all my collegues use outlook.
I'm sure I'm not alone in this situation.
While I almost never format mails in HTML myself, I agree that it helps to highlight
portion of text in a reply.

Replying to html formatted text is precisely what kmail can't do.
It does support html composing but can't reply to html mails correctly.
When reply to html mails, the content is (badly) converted to text destroying all the formatting (even line breaks and tabs).

If fully supporting html is too much, would it be possible to, at least, enhance the way html mails are converted to text?

Quoted

Originally posted by AVonGauss
For example, what is most recently burning me and frustrating my clients is when they use Outlook to send a message with color highlighting (HTML) and I use KMail to reply, if I don't make use of "HTML" KMail automatically replies with plain text only. In most cases it doesn't preserve any of the HTML formatting of the original message in either replies or forwards unless you forward the message as an attachment.

The client I am referring to is a Fortune 500 company - some of their execs may act like kids or even big babies sometimes, but HTML definitely has business purposes.

I am sorry that you're in a situation that forces you to deal with HTML mail, which IMO is evil, evil and evil. I bet your clients never think twice about top-posting when they reply to your mail.

I personally dislike HTML mail because (1) it adds unnecessary complexity (in the name of beautiful decoration) to e-mail messages, and (2) it makes proper commenting (i.e. bottom-posting) very hard. The current HTML support built into Kmail is as much as I'd like to see in it.

I *always* (<-- this is how you can emphasize text instead of "colouring" it) write plain text mail. I also try my best to bottom-post when I reply. That's the way it should be, and I don't want to have the limited resource of KDE engineers work on improving HTML support. They've got better things to do.

Quoted

Originally posted by daihard

I *always* (<-- this is how you can emphasize text instead of "colouring" it) write plain text mail. I also try my best to bottom-post when I reply. That's the way it should be, and I don't want to have the limited resource of KDE engineers work on improving HTML support. They've got better things to do.

The problem is *not* composing html mails but *replying* to html mails.

Please consider the following usual situation.
You are discussing about a one page specification via mail.
The spec is formatted in html by the other members of your group (You are lucky enough that this spec is not formatted in a Word document).
Each time a member propose a small correction to the spec he use a specific color to insert inline comments in the spec (Larger comments are usually top or bottom posted referring to the inline comments).
The html formatting is not a fancy flashy one: there are items/enumerations and colors nothing that you you couldn't compose with kmail.
Kmail diplays perfectly these messages.
However, you are now requested to give your input in the discussion...

You *cannot* do it without destroying all the formatting (line breaks, item, colors).
It would probably be acceptable to reply with a text formatted mail (demonstrating that html is not necessary btw) but this text should at least respect the tabulation of the original message.
For now you have to reformat it by hand which is tedious.
There is not even the possibility to write a "custom template" to reformat the html into text using a better html to text converter because kmail does not provide a command to extract the html part from the mail and pipe it to an external filter.

Imho this is the *biggest* problem kde is facing in business environment. Big enough to give up (or being forced to stop) using kde or even linux.
I can't believe that the kde team consider this minor. Unless using kde in business environment is considered "not important" or even incongruous.

Quoted

Originally posted by jms
Please consider the following usual situation.
You are discussing about a one page specification via mail.
The spec is formatted in html by the other members of your group (You are lucky enough that this spec is not formatted in a Word document).
Each time a member propose a small correction to the spec he use a specific color to insert inline comments in the spec (Larger comments are usually top or bottom posted referring to the inline comments).
[snip]
Imho this is the *biggest* problem kde is facing in business environment. Big enough to give up (or being forced to stop) using kde or even linux.
I can't believe that the kde team consider this minor. Unless using kde in business environment is considered "not important" or even incongruous.

I suppose it depends upon the business environment you are in. For instance, many of our customers choose to send us plain text e-mail. The KDE team must allocate their resources wisely. If they believe the way you guys use e-mail isn't a very common practice, chances are they do consider it a minor issue, and rightfully so.

Quoted

Originally posted by daihard
I suppose it depends upon the business environment you are in. For instance, many of our customers choose to send us plain text e-mail. The KDE team must allocate their resources wisely. If they believe the way you guys use e-mail isn't a very common practice, chances are they do consider it a minor issue, and rightfully so.

I don't believe, that using Outlook this way in business environment isn't a very common practice.
Probably, being alone using linux/kde in a company where 6000 other employees use Windows/Outlook is uncommon and it certainly will remain so until kmail better integrates with Outlook.

Quoted

Originally posted by jms
Probably, being alone using linux/kde in a company where 6000 other employees use Windows/Outlook is uncommon and it certainly will remain so until kmail better integrates with Outlook.

IMO, it all comes down to what the goal of KDE is. If the goal is to let KDE work more seamlessly with the Windows environment, then your suggestion makes sense. However, I don't think that's where KDE is (or should be) going.

As Linux users, we all know that adoption by the mass market is not a shared goal of the Linux community.

I just want to add my support for HTML in KMail. In my firm (a legal firm) emails are passed among one another with heavy formatting. There are many, many Latin terms that our lawyers (being stick-in-the-mud lawyers!) prefer to italicise. I'm forced to use Windows in the office, but use KMail from home for when I'm not in the office (beats me why I should, but taking work home with you is something you get used to in the end!) and messing up a lawyers formatting in replies gets their backs up. Doesn't make for a pretty sight, I assure you!

But then, what about RTF? You can make use of bold, italics, underlining, etc, without the "pains" of HTML? Is that a useful compromise?

I have been using Kmail for a few years now, and like it a lot, but the thing that's got me thinking about switching to something else is that there's no good way to move my mail folders (including the subfolder structure) from one installation of KDE to another, as when one changes computers. I remembers spending days trying to figure this out the last time it happened to me a few years ago, and there's apparently still no good solution.

I'm sure many people, like me, invest a lot of time in filing important information in email folders. it is just unacceptable that all that work and all those records go down the drain simply because you get a new computer. I know there are some workarounds. The mail is still in those files with the alphabet soup names, you can try to index it and or search it in the raw, and there are ways of laboriously flattening your file structures, moving files around, and then recreating your file structures, but there's got to be a better way.

This is a deal killer for a lot of people, especially those who use email for business, and it would be a great promotional point to make if the problem were solved.

Sorry to be such a grump. I am really grateful for all the great stuff that the KDE community has created, but I am currently in the middle of configuring a new computer, and well, you know. ;-)

Quoted

I personally dislike HTML mail because (1) it adds unnecessary complexity (in the name of beautiful decoration) to e-mail messages, and (2) it makes proper commenting (i.e. bottom-posting) very hard. The current HTML support built into Kmail is as much as I'd like to see in it.

I *always* (<-- this is how you can emphasize text instead of "colouring" it) write plain text mail. I also try my best to bottom-post when I reply. That's the way it should be, and I don't want to have the limited resource of KDE engineers work on improving HTML support. They've got better things to do.

OK, let's be realistic. This objection to anything except plain text emails is really only elitist, inverted snobbery. Sorry to be so brutal - but information presentation is very important in all fields. Early typographers would be astonished by someone claiming to prefer plain text. How well information is presented is a major factor in how it is understood.
Please, please let us move on and allow KMail to realise its potential.

Quoted

Originally posted by vdicarlo
I have been using Kmail for a few years now, and like it a lot, but the thing that's got me thinking about switching to something else is that there's no good way to move my mail folders (including the subfolder structure) from one installation of KDE to another, as when one changes computers.

Yippee! This has apparently now been fixed. I am now using Kmail 1.9.6 which is part of KDE 3.5.7 release 69.1, which was installed by Suse 10.2, and it looks like Danny Kukawka, bless his hacker's little heart, has written an import utility that flawlessly imported my really complicated 1.5 gigabyte mail folder complete with structure. Thank you Danny, and thank you KDE!!!

I agree with kevincolyer! Better integration with other kontact components is crucial. I should be able to click on an e-mail and set a meeting reminder that has the e-mail as its content. Right now I save the e-mail in a folder, go to calendar, create an event and attach the e-mail to it. It would be lovely if this was automatic.

Also, I use and love the threading option of kmail. But I think there should be the option to see my own e-mails in the thread too, just like gmail does. Here's how to implement this: kmail knows where sent mails go. If an e-mail in sent mails looks like a reply to an e-mail in the current folder, just display that e-mail in the current folder in the thread. If such e-mails can be displayed a little differently, one can differentiate whether that e-mail is really in the current folder (ex: bcc self) or pulled from sent mails.

I think this option would be spectacular now that there are so many people used to gmail threading.

I miss one thing since I've changed from MS-Outlook to KMail: In Outlook there is a feature which allows you to delete messages automatically from the server if they are deleted from the computer. That would be very practically in KMail too.

Another thing is a bug: Sometimes all messages from the server are downloaded again and are stored now twice on the computer. This is very annoying and should be corrected.

Quoted

OK, let's be realistic. This objection to anything except plain text emails is really only elitist, inverted snobbery. Sorry to be so brutal - but information presentation is very important in all fields. Early typographers would be astonished by someone claiming to prefer plain text. How well information is presented is a major factor in how it is understood.
Please, please let us move on and allow KMail to realise its potential.

+1, Agreed

Quoted from "Zunami"

more and more Groupware Server integrate Messenger Service

integrate a Messenger Client into KMail

I sort of agree only instead of doing it the way you suggest, id link it to kopete. AFAIK, kde4.1 will provide the support for much closer integration. I was supposed to be working and i came up with a really good design for this, unfortunatly it seams Kmails problem is lack of developers not ideas. I will post up my idea anyway because it may help

1) Kopete integration (i think this is being done anyway, which is disapionting for me as it was the only part i thought i could do with my lack of coding skills), include recived Emails (as links) , SMS (as links unless its the last message recived) (& web contacts, see more on this latter) in history.
AFAIK this is being done via combining the backends of Kmail, kopete & kmobiletools

2) include IM details when composing an email.
when you add adresses to the TO:/CC:/BCC: if the person is online (get this information from adress book integration + DCOP) show an Icon
*Hovering over the icon will give information about there IM details (from kopete/ adressbook)
*Clicking on the icon will toggle IM notification (basically when you send the Email it sends them an IM)
*Double clicking will start an IM converstation with them (through kopete, possibly including email txt)
*Middle clicking (uses kpart to split the email composer page in two and have a section open for instant messaging) (this would need kopete to build a kpart and probably be tricky but worth it)
*if you have an unread IM from them, flash the icon
(probably easier to implement 1st)At the end of the TO:/CC: there will also be an IM icon:
*hovering over the icon gives information about all the people in the TO field (e.g lists online / offline + im protocol)
*Clicking on the icon toggles IM notification for all of them
*Double clicking starts group chat(s) on all IMs (the problem is that some people may be on more than 1 IM, but that can be adressed with cleaverness in latter versions (e.g work out which way to open the least chats, and not add anybody twice), as most users will have groups of friends on a single IM protocol)
**midle clicking does the same as double click but uses a kpart

3)Calander integration when composing
If a user has a calander (taken from the address book) then add an icon next to thier name & at the end of the line
*hovering over would ideally give a preview of thier/all calander (may not be possible) or info
*clicking/middle would popup thier calander in another window/kpart
*clicking/middle clicking the end calander would load a calander with everybodies calanders (if this isnt possible then atleast their free buzy times (infact an option or jsut that would be nice for older computers anyway))

4) SMS integration when composing (not a 1st priorety, and again the latter options are proably easier to impliment)
*hover gives info/ info for all
*clicking gives notification / notification for all of them
*double/middle clicking starts kmobile send SMS function
*if you have an unread SMS flash the icon
**later versions could include a plugin to those programs that send SMS via webportals for when your phone isnt connected

5)Plugins to read emails from social networking sites and be able to
*insert into kopete if you have a wall post/comment/message/etc
*notify when composing if you have an unread message from somebody
*add invitations to events to your calander
*when composing allow you to open up your friends profile in a khtml kpart/sensible webrowser (doesnt need to read your email for this just check your adressbook)

And as somebody else suggested, if there is a date in an email, being able to right click it and open an add event dialog with
event name: email name
event description:email text
links: link to email & any links in the email
attending: From + TO + CC:
time & date: guessed from the email

Now i realise that all this sounds like a lot of work for features yu dont normally associate with an email client, but this will make kmail stand out and fully take advantage of the kde4.1 platform
And if you think kmail would be better of sticking to standard groupware methods i present you JWZs essay: http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html